IT WAS a far cry from sermonising in the pulpit.

A dozen Swindon clergymen were sat in a Swindon College classroom discussing financial management.

In the first scheme of its kind in the country, the vicars, ministers and priests were attending a series of seminars run by the college in conjunction with Bristol's Trinity College.

The course, which started in January and runs until June, sets out to give clergymen with experience of working in parish churches help in areas that aren't covered by theological courses.

As well as learning how to balance the books, the series of six monthly sessions teaches management skills, team building, leadership and IT skills.

Canon Michael Johnson, the vicar of Wroughton, said: "We recognised there were some things we didn't learn at college.

"Things such as computers, managing accounts and running teams were new to many parish priests and vicars, so this provides some training in those areas.

"This is the first time the scheme has been run in the country so we are working closely with Swindon College on what has and has not worked and on how we can improve it, and hopefully extend it to areas outside of Swindon."

The session on accounts and financial management has been a big help.

It is notoriously difficult for parishes to find someone with accounting skills to act as treasurer, so the Finance for Clergy session sets out to give members an appreciation of financial control and the role of an accountant in business and in the church. By the end of the session delegates had been taught financial basics such as compiling and interpreting final accounts, applying good financial practice and VAT to church accounts and understanding common accounting terms.

Tutor Jack Gough said: "We have been working with Trinity College in Bristol on how the course can be best suited to the clergy's needs.

"I spent 10 years as a parish church treasurer in Chipping Sodbury so I have a closer under-standing of their specific needs.

"Eventually we hope to extend the course to lay members of the church so that we can give a formal qualification to parish treasurers.

"Our principal was telling us recently that as a college we have to run along business lines, even though we are not a business."

It is the same with churches. They have to run themselves as a business so they do not get into debt, and then any profit, or surplus, they have will be put back into the church or donated to charity.

It is hoped that giving the clergy a clear understanding of financial principals will reduce the chance of them being hoodwinked by unscrupulous treasurers.

At the moment the course is open only to clergymen in Swindon and is attended by Catholic and Protestant ministers.

The long-term plan is for other areas to follow Swindon's lead.

Father John Reville is the Clifton Diocese's Director for Ongoing Formation.

He attends the course and was a member of the group that helped design it.

He said: "The idea is to extend it so we have a much broader course open to more people.

"When we looked at the nature of leadership in the church it was not just leadership of worship but of committee meetings and projects. The course fills in those gaps from theological college.

"What we are learning is vital because it helps us bring the Christian message to people from all walks of life.

"In the long term there could be hundreds of people around the country taking a course like this a figure of 400 people each year has been mentioned."

Some elements of the course have clashed with religious life, however.

As the Rev Guy Donegan-Cross, the curate of Christ Church in Old Town explained, in business the bottom line is profit whereas in the church, the most important thing is people.

He said: "It is interesting for me because I see the course as a dialogue between the values of the kingdom of God and the values of the management and financial worlds.

"Sometimes there are things we can learn from each other but sometimes they clash.

"With a management structure you have a clear set up and everyone has a job to do but they are all volunteers so people drop out."

But Mr Donnegan-Cross said that he could see positive elements of the busin-ess world which could be identified with Christianity, such as the modern culture at some firms of treating empl-oyees well, by giving them their birthdays or Friday afternoons off for example.

He continued: "I like the idea one company had of starting the day with a group hug!

"The church is often perceived as being separate from the world of business and finance management and that somehow there is a split between work and faith.

"Maybe what part of this course can do is show that we believe everything is God's concern."